Ep12: Law & Order and the Real Scoop on Criminal Justice in America with Judge Nick Nazaretian
Episode Summary:
Judge Nick Nazaretian of the 13th Judicial Circuit in Hillsborough County joins Sarina to discuss the criminal justice system from his perspective and the impact of the Coronavirus.
Raw Transcript:
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I'm Sarina Fazan, taking a risk, making a difference, and changing the course of your life. Remarkable stories from people defying the odds. You're listening to Trailblazer. Hello, everyone. And thank you so much for joining us here on Trailblazer where you hear from amazing people and their remarkable stories, sitting across from me right now is one of my most favorite people Judge Nick Nazaretian. Judge, thank you so much for being here and morning. Thanks for having me. Judge. Okay, I have to ask you first. Well, first of all, for the viewers, tell us a little bit about you. You're a judge in Hillsborough County Circuit Court judge in Hillsborough County. I've been in touch for about 20 years. A handle initially started with family law, but my backgrounds kind of in the criminal law area. So I do criminal courts right now. I've been doing those for about, let's see 13 years after the family law. Wow. Okay, so judge Let me ask you.
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You have one of those professions that honestly it's like a wow factor. Right. So what is it like being a criminal judge? Well, it's a business never stops. Sure. You take
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Calls not only while you're working in the courthouse, but when you get off of work. And that work day ends, there's phone calls for police for search warrants, there's issues you have to do on the computer now with different cases. So it's basically a 24 hour job. It's not a job that you work nine to five and stop. A lot of times you go home, you're working on your cases, making decisions, reviewing documents, reviewing case law. So it's one of those things that's not a nine to five deals, your Judge 24 hours a day, throughout your whole term. So let me ask you, you know, like so many of us, some of our favorite shows are law and order based shows. In fact, one of the most popular shows ever on television is lawn mower law and order and then you know, all the series after that you see on those shows that police detectives Do you knock on a judge's door and you just talked about it, you're working 24 hours a day. So does that happen? It does happen. We're on duty once a year, which is literally all week, you know, 24 hours a day where people will come to your house in the middle of the night. So oftentimes, there's
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patrol cars outside my house at two in the morning. And everyone always is asking the next one will something happen Zerrin house what's going on so because they see the police officers because they'll come get their warrant signed, and then they'll go serve them right away. So if they don't do those in broad daylight, a lot of times they do them at nighttime to you know, to be more effective. So they'll come at one I'm in my garage signing it there on the street, going to do it right after that. So it's so it's just fun to the neighbors oftentimes will see the police out there and they'll think Well, what's going on? And I have to explain to them everything's fine. So but it does happen a lot. Wow. Judge it. I can only imagine the pressure though, of here's a police detective or, you know, Deputy presenting you with a warrant and saying, Judge, we need you to sign this because of X, Y and Z. I know you're the consummate professional, but how do you make this decisions? This is this experience. You know, one of the things is super important because every once in a while in our system, something
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happens, the decision is made, and then there's a bad result that happens. So we can't predict what's going to happen. You just have to look at each case with the facts and circumstances around it. And make best decision with your experience with your knowledge you obtained at the job. And I was a prosecutor for 10 years before that. And before that, it was a three year public defenders. So I've been in the criminal system for a long time. And while there's still things new that come up, I've seen pretty much most of it that comes up. So that really helps to kind of look back on your experience and just your ability to deal with these situations. And it's just you have to be very careful, we can't predict the future. So on occasion, you will hear about some tragedy that happens. And sometimes they'll blame a judge for lowering a bail or doing this or doing that and nobody wants that to happen at all. That's obviously nobody wants that to happen, but you make the best decision you can and then you move on to the next decision. Wow. Judge, so let me ask you, do you feel to be a judge it is very important to have you said you were
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Yours in the public defender's office and you were a prosecutor for 10 years, that type of background, you need that type of balance, it gives you a balance, you know what it's like to represent somebody to have the government prosecute your client, you're familiar with what a client goes through and the due process rights, the accused tab, then on the flip side, as a prosecutor, you deal with the victim and the victims, right. So you know, what it's like to build a case, oftentimes, of defense lawyers is trying to break down a case or destroy a case that's a little harsh, but write down a case where the prosecutor is building it up. So having done both of those, it really gives you a good balance when you pull back and become a judge, or both of those two people that used to be so it really is helpful because you know what? Good public defenders are good defense lawyer, you know, what a good prosecutor is. You just use that experience. So it really has been a balancing situation that that I pulled back now become a judge, and it's really helpful to see both sides of that. I want to go back to that in a minute. But I want I want to ask you a question. I know this is
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Kind of like a scary question, or maybe that's not even the right word. But going back to a lot of television shows that people watch and you do see that judge judges getting threatened with their lives. Does that happen as well? That's happened a few times. And oftentimes, it's a relative of somebody. And thankfully, most times, it's just a bunch of people talking, they're upset because of what happened to their relative. But it is a concern. And I think all of us at one point, especially in the family law era, in the criminal area, have had to get some extra security for a while. And a lot of times there's people that just are talking, but you never know when that's going to happen. There have been some in our state there's been some issues when judges have been attacked, you know, not recently but the within a few years ago and this is something you have to be careful of because
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the real important thing when you're in court is to not make it personal. I the one thing I've noticed about being a public defender, prosecutor and and judge now, the the accused and maybe their families as long as you don't as long as they think
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You're doing your job, you're being fair doing your job. There's really not a lot of bad feelings towards the judge. Oftentimes, and I find this surprising that when I was a, I would think they'd be upset with the prosecutor or the judge. Oftentimes, they're upset with their own lawyer because of what happened. So so you know, I really realized that when I was a young defense lawyer, public defender, but but a lot of times, that's who they're upset, but the key is not to make it personal. Just do your job. You don't need to make personal comments about an individual just, there's a way to do your job without making it personal towards that person. As long as I think people think you're doing your job. I think they understand they're not going to be happy with you, and they'll say things, but I don't think they're going to you know, do anything beyond that. And you know, that you could go home at night and sleep well, because you're making the right decision because justice always prevails that and but there have been a couple times when that's a very good point you made but when you've gone home and you're still thinking about something and you're having trouble sleeping, you're
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Thinking about it for a couple days. That's happened a couple times, and I've actually gone back and changed my mind because it just bothers you, it concerns you. It says something is just doesn't feel right or sound right in your head and you're trying to figure it out. And you know, if that happens, it's happened two or three times in my 33 years of experience that you actually go back, go back and maybe make a different decision or change your mind about something. And because sometimes that happens, or look at it, maybe additional time, it's going to happen once in a while. So normally, that does not happen. But But if it's still something you're thinking about days, and days later, you might want to go back and take a look at it. That does happen. Because remember, judges are human beings, they have good days and bad days. And it's important to understand that that that, you know, maybe you weren't thinking about one particular issue clearly enough and you went back and we thought through it, that does happen. So when you say and I know it's only happened a few times, but changing your mind. Are you talking about like
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a verdict Look, a man or a woman be a verdict as the jury would like, let's
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If you had a motion to suppress evidence, and you said, Well, it was an OK search, and you allow the police search to go through them giving you a hypothetical, you allowed the police searched the thought later on, well, you know what, maybe, you know, maybe the police should not have done that. Okay. And it's weighing on your head when your head and you'll maybe reevaluate it. So So, but that does happen doesn't happen a lot. It doesn't happen a lot. Because see, the good thing about this job is when you hear a case, while everyone wants you to make a decision right away, you can say I'm going to take this under advisement and wait a day or two and so if that's what doesn't happen a lot that going back and change because if you really don't aren't sure you have some doubts, taken under advisement for a couple of days. You know, rethink it, when you're home, relaxed in a different setting, go through your head and just that sorts of things. And that's usually if that's what doesn't happen a lot. Because normally if you don't, if you're not sure, when you actually hear it, you can just take it under advisement. So judge I mean, I have many many questions, but
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Speaking of your job, how do you get your job in the first place? There are two ways to become a judge in the state of Florida. There's the appointment process. So imagine a job comes open in any job. And there's interviews. Well, there's there's something called the J NC judicial nominating commission. And that commission is set up with about, I think, nine or 10 people on it. Some are appointed by the governor, some by the bar, and it's people that are interested in in vetting judges and kind of interviewing judges here locally, so anyone can apply. That's got five years of experience as a lawyer, Hillsborough County resident, right, and they apply for a job opening, maybe a judge has has retired, maybe unfortunately passed away, or maybe they've moved up to a higher judge like a hierarchy they move to that position becomes open, or like in Hillsborough right now, it hopefully we're gonna get some new judge spots open gate coming in from the legislature, potentially. So those are some of the ways the openings come up. So they'll announce an opening and you will put your application and the applications very thorough
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talks all about your legal history. You can get recommendation letters, much like any other job, and it's local, committed local JMC. And of course, every county has one of those. The JMC's every every citizen, every circuit has one of those, and they will look at your applications and they'll grant you a local interview. Okay. Okay. And then and then you have go through an interview process about 20 minute interview, usually 30 to 40 people do that. And then if you're successful, they pick six people. Wow, go to Tallahassee only. So it's a second it's a second round of six people and up there. You're looking at the Governor's Council the agenda. The governor has many people that work with him, his general counsel his lawyers meet with you they have two or three people up there that interview up there with with questions. So those six get re interviewed on different sometimes the same questions, but sometimes additional questions, okay, but judicial philosophy, things like that.
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And so those six people then will then get choked. One of those people will get chosen from those six people. Now, certain governors, I've had the fortunate. I was selected by Governor Bush in 2001. Then I was selected to a higher spot by Governor Scott in 2011. Some governors will interview that interview yourself that the people, the six people as well. So a face to face something I mean, sometimes that happens, different governors do in different ways. And sometimes they'll even break that group of six down with three governors interviews. There's just different things that happen. Okay. Sometime in the governors in town, and doors general counsel's in town, they will do that interview in Tampa, depending on the situation. There's no real set way that works, except there is an additional round in Tallahassee. Wow. And then once that happens, they'll look at you and they'll decide if they're going to appoint you or not. And then, you know, they'll say well, don't give up try again and that sort of thing. So it's the appointment process. Okay. Okay. The other process
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Is the election process where you run for positions that are open, or you run against people that you run against incumbent judges. So there may be what's called an open seat. There were several open seats as last time, and there was qualifying That was last Friday, the 24th of April. And then people would, would put their paperwork in and try to qualify for that position. And if they didn't receive opposition, they were elected without opposition for a new term. If you did receive opposition, you have to have an election, which is August the 18th of this year. How long is the term? Six years, six years? It used to be it used to be four, and it moved up to six. Okay. So and of course, for the difference in state judges and federal judges, our federal judges do not have to run for election once they're appointed by the President. They're judges forever, right. But we have to we have been state courts, the judges have to see have to see the electorate every six years. And we get to have the levels of our state judges, the DCA judges.
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The Supreme Court judges, they don't have elections, they have a preference kind of a preference thing. They're on the ballot every I think every six years, but the public votes to either retain them or not like a retention poll prep that I would set preference rather to retention poll. So they have to face the electorate to but it's a little bit different. Should you retain that person or not? We have to go kind of go through the election process. So it's election or appointment? Those are the two ways to do it. And I like that because it gives everyone an opportunity to do both perhaps right, or, you know, or if you're favorable in one position or the other. It gives you an opportunity to do that. I'm always for giving more people opportunity. I think that's really important because it makes them more diverse bench. Right? Right. It gives everyone an opportunity to show you the governor's people or the public, you know, your qualifications and whether or not you should be a judgment. And you know, this question may not be fair, it is fair to ask you, but how does Florida fall compared to other states? I know it's judicial.
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Process generally speaking, I, again, this is a guest from my looking at it while ago. I don't. I don't think there's as many states that have both processes. I think they have one or the other. But I think the state of Alabama elects their state Supreme Court Justice, which is interesting. We don't, we don't measure by a point. There's no election for those. But insane with the DCA judges. But I think we're one of I want to say with a few states, but there's not a lot that have both for my memory. Okay, because we'll, we'll have to talk about that more. And I want to invite you back on the posture to talk about
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the death penalty, because there's a lot of interesting thing there is, that's a constantly changing thing. Yes. Especially here in our day. Yes, especially in the state of Florida. Talk about well, so you and I had a chance to talk to and, in fact, before I go into that subject, the reason why I asked you about the process of becoming a judge is because judges are held at a very high standard because really
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I know we have juries. But the ultimate decision correct judge or I mean, the judge is the one who has to make sure that there is a fair process, right. And people do get their day in court that the jury, obviously if it's a jury trial, then like that they will make the decision on guilt or innocence. But the court controls the evidence and and that way the case is produced to the jury. So if you had a judge that wasn't doing a good job with that, the jury may be hearing things they're not supposed to hear, which could affect your decision. So the jury makes the ultimate decision, but the judge has to make sure the case is running smoothly. Laws are being followed. The evidence is being followed. The jury instructions are correct. So it's the judges the jury is doing the ultimate decision, but the judge is channeling everything in a legal way. So the defendant the accused has a due process rights and the victims are also protected. So it is a very important role. If not if there was nobody in there, kind of channeling and making sure everything was done legally. Then the prosecutor and defense lawyer
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Just be talking to the jurors and there'd be no way to judge what was appropriate to go to them. So that's experience and education and just knowledge and and work with you're working through our system and knowing issues that come up in cases because you're dealing with the attorneys, the witnesses, the accused the victim, and jurors. So there's, there's an awful lot going on in a case, and you're always focusing on because one little thing said the wrong way, it's a miss trial, you do the whole thing again. So imagine if you just put on I don't want to relate this like a play or something. But if it was, if you've had anyone go through rehearsal, everything's The Big Show. And then midway through the show, somebody falls and hurts themselves, the whole show is ruined. Right? Right. So so once you bring everyone in it's it's obviously really serious the trial is but it's kind of like that, that kind of idea that you want to make sure you do this one time. Everything goes smooth, and everything is correct and legal. So it's, it's a little nerve wracking. Sometimes
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Judge you have so much experience in the I cannot? I mean, I can I can only imagine how nerve wracking it is. Since you were in the criminal system, I'm sure you've presided over some very high profile cases. Or are you are you tell me, oh, I have I have and the I don't, because of the way I've been up my appointments and the the assignments I've gotten, it seems like that when I got up to do some of those, I have yet to do a death penalty case. So we can talk about that for a second. I have yet to do that. I am qualified to do that. You have to go through a special schooling through the state of Florida, the judicial college to become qualified to hear a death penalty case. And and so, so that's something that's been a been something I've been able to do. There haven't been a lot of death penalty cases in our jurisdiction. And a lot of that's due to the fact that the laws changing and that will go Don't try next podcast, but the laws have been in limbo for a while in our state over the death Boni and so it really hasn't been being used.
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last several years, but I've handled all kinds of cases in the community. And it's just, it's something that
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you just have. But every cases, everybody gets the same rights, whether you're not a high profile case, or that you aren't as important to realize that sometimes the media is in there for the high profile cases. And you've got to make sure that you don't change how you present yourself in the case, and they can't become a distraction.
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An interesting thing, I've been a member of that for many years, you know, what's interesting, and I hear this from a lot of people is that I'm wider all the shows on TV from Florida, New York and California. Why is that it really the only three states that have a lot of crime. And the real reason is because many other states don't allow television and don't allow media are those three states do? And because of that, those are big states like California, New York, and Florida, right? That's why a lot of the shows are from there that you see, but it doesn't mean there's not crime in other states. It's just they don't allow the media and do you think media
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shouldn't be allowed in courtrooms? What is your opinion on that? I think as long as doesn't affect doesn't affect an accused, right to a fair trial, that that's really super important. I understand in Europe, there can't be a lot of pretrial publicity right before the case gets started. So, you know, there's the right freedom of press right. And for people to know, I just don't want it to affect an accused due process rights to a fair trial and or the victims rights to a fair trial. So it's gotta be a balance, it's got to kind of be a balance, you know, to make sure that the press has their access to the case, but also that doesn't affect the rights of individuals in a case that's that's always a balance and you know, for example, when the media does come we don't show the jurors faces right and and and sometimes there's only maybe one or two cameras in there. It's called a pool camera sometimes. So what they what just for the viewers to know a lot of times what judges will say that they don't want so many cameras in there to be a distraction. So the new stations, we have
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Have a pool system where we choose one photographer, we alternate that the channels alternate. And the one photographer shoots the video, then we all share the video. So it's a camera for those people who may not know. And But anyway, I just have to be careful with, you know, not get taken away that you know and remember that you're a judge of a trial and the facts and the people that are there and just kind of avoid that if you can't, but make sure it's really important to jurors, sometimes in high profile cases where there's some violent allegations, the jurors get concerned because they may be on television. And so that's why it's super, super important not to have them shown right to protect the jurors and I, in fact, years and years ago, I broke this story. When I worked at the local station here about Caylee Anthony, and that
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that the jury was going to be chosen out of Pinellas County. And I remember I remember sitting there and every single live truck from around the country showed up and I remember my news director saying you're sure that the panel's the jury is gonna be chosen out of vanilla.
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county your sources are good. And I like it. But for the first time, I would like they Oh my god. But I just asked you that because I remember, there was so much publicity around it. And there was a gag order, right issued in that case, right. So for a judge to issue a gag order, I have two questions about hypervisors. Like that. I mean, you must take, you've got to take all the info, because because the public wants to hear everything that they possibly can. Right. But then, as you mentioned, we've also got to protect the privacy. So what factors into that judge? Well, besides being a judge, I'm also an instructor at some of the colleges here locally, in the world of criminal justice, and we talk about what's called the change of venue. Okay, yes, the change of venue and that was like that case, and in that case, they and I try and suggest to my students that they're really we're live in such a world of information now that we know what's going on around the world right now in any city. Okay. So when in that particular case, the the court had had made
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decision to get Gerson Pinellas and then bring them back to Orlando. And I'm not in any way being critical of that decision. But in the world that we live in now, information is everywhere. And people in California probably knew as much as people in Orlando knew about that case. So sometimes, I don't really see a lot of change of venue things as much anymore because of all the information with the media and stuff. And everybody knows things. So sometimes it's important like in federal court, there's no television. So right, so you can't televise what's going on. So the gag order stops, maybe some evidence of getting out to the public before you know the trial getting to the jurors that sort of tries to do to try to stop that from happening. But again, you have to balance the freedom of the press that right, and to the defendants accused rights, you know, the cues their rights, to have a fair and impartial jury and fair trial. So it is interesting when that happens.
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But it just seems like more and more, there's so much coverage everywhere you're like, I just don't see a lot of change of venue issues anymore. And these what we call high profile cases, because everyone kind of already knows. Here's the trick. I think it's, and this is a question gets asked in the death penalty cases and a lot of the high profile cases, knowing what you know, can you be still be fair? So in other words, to believe that people don't know, in this day and age is really just in my mind kind of difficult to think. Although there are some people I've actually had some jurors that said, I don't know I've never heard of this. I guess it could happen. But it's well, it's but it's more rare, because the information is just everywhere. It's on our fingers. So the question is based on what you know, can you still be fair and impartial so that's, that's that question. So when when the jurors come in, oftentimes the case that's coming up as advertised all over the media case starts on Monday, sensational trial starts on Monday, right? So everyone's maybe already seen it or read a little bit about it. Definitely. And that's good.
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happen on Monday morning, but when the jurors come into the courtroom, but based on what you know, have you already made a decision? Have you already formed a decision in your head? So that's what takes a little bit longer. So your jury selection process is going to take longer, probably in a more high profile case. So speaking of high profile cases, I'll even go back to OJ right.
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in, in, in California, we've had several high profile cases here. I know as a journalist, a lot of times you want to handle the big story, right, or the story that, you know, is the most important story that's happening or for me, I know for me, I've I've done many exclusive interviews as a judge.
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Do you want I mean, is that how how is a judge assigned one of these high profile cases? And do you want those high profile cases? Well, you have to be qualified. First of all, it's a death penalty case. That's the first thing we I don't know that a number of
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Judges, I don't know how many are qualified, because we all come in at different times. But that's one of the things they try. Once you get to the criminal assignment, that you go through this course you get qualified as soon as possible. If that's needed. We have some trial divisions that are able to do trials weeks at a time. So you remember the other judges do their dockets. Okay. And so you've got regular cases every day. And it's sometimes hard to put a two or three week trial within your regular cases, right. So we have trial divisions in Hillsborough County, we actually have three of those. And that's all they do are the trials, the the a little bit more lengthy trial sweet that those cases are going to prompt let's say we had a high profile case in Tampa, more than likely that will go one of those three trials case will go to one of the three trial divisions because that's what it's a specialty court to handle cases like that. So the other judges could do it as well, but typically, they're going to go there. So And when that happens, you just have to understand that that's ever consumed. That's your whole week or two. That's it.
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A high consumption type deal. There's a lot of issues with that jury selection takes an awful long time, an awful long time. And you just have to make sure you get a fair juror and jurors and sometimes it's even tougher because the news is out there so much that people are know about the case. Wow. So
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you know, we can't help it right. Like we're all human right.
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Dee? Dee, like proceeding over high profile trials. The ones that have I do I do, but I Well, yes, exactly. I don't like it. It's just I really hate this to be so ballsy. But it's just like anything else. It's not.
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It's like another like, for instance, I mean, I know a lot of people are talking about the tiger King right now about like, maybe potential charges coming down the line. Who knows that's what everybody's talking about. Right? The whole country is talking about right.
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But say and I'm not saying she's guilty. I'm not saying she's not guilty. I'm not saying just the talk around the country. What if Carol Baskin faces trial
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Right would fall in the jurisdiction of Hillsborough County, it would I don't know, the one thing I everyone is watching that show right now. And I would normally be with everyone else. I'm a huge animal person, biggest animal person I've probably ever met. And all week my wife and I talked about are animals that get harmed in the show. And once we found that we did well, we didn't even watch it. And I feel bad, because I heard it's a great show as far as entertainment value. But no, if I believe it's a federal case, in that case, would you Oh, that's right. It is a federal case. Yeah. And I just honestly, finished watching the show. The only reason why I mentioned I just used that example, but so many people are talking about right about that. Right. Right. So that that is a high profile, right, and it's on television and stuff. So that would be a heck of a jury selection event ever if that ever comes here. One of the things you mentioned before about the OJ case, and I was a young prosecutor when that case when that case, the verdict came out. I remember everyone was glued to the
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Thomas, I think was in 95. But one of the things that always as I told you, I teach that I want all my students to know is what not guilty means in America. Okay? Okay. Not guilty means innocent or not proven. Okay? So it's hard sometimes for people to understand that they think guilty or innocent, you're innocent. But but it's but I always try as a judge when I'm talking to the jurors before the trial, it will be a chance to ask them some questions and present some things to them. I always tell them that that in our in America not guilty is two things, either or it's or sometimes both, you're innocent. I didn't do this crime, right. Or it wasn't proven proven that I did this crime. And sometimes that's hard for people to understand when they sit as a juror, but that's what not guilty means in American. And so when we analyze all these cases, you know, whether Meteor some other place, I always try and people I can't believe that verdict.
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He's he's not innocent. Remember, there is that other aspect of that. And that's something I think it's important for people to understand about our system of justice in America. So our Do you have an opinion on that case?
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So, you know, it's interesting. It's interesting. It's I just think that that whole thing has so many issues too. And I watch all the shows that are still about that. Now. I like watching that, especially, what 2025 years later. It's interesting. It's all I have to say it's interesting and it go back into guilty and not guilty. What all those two different things mean. It really sometimes people think maybe someone did something, but then if it wasn't proven, they did it. They're not the same not guilty as being innocent. Truly, one of the most fascinating cases ever was a crime of the century and always I always talk to my students about what is their crime of their century. You know, the Lindbergh baby kidnapping case was the crime of my parents century in the 30s. And, and I guess OJ was mine maybe, I don't know if Casey Anthony is that big enough to be there. I don't know.
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It's interesting. It's interesting to look back on that so, so judge, have you always wanted to be a judge? When did you When did you want to be a judge one of the things about being a public defender and prosecutor A lot of people have a philosophy that's all they want to do in the criminal world. Okay, as far as I can only be a prosecutor because and that's fine. It's nothing wrong with having that feeling. wreck only be a defense lawyer because of that. I never really saw both of those roles as I can only just do that. I like doing the trials. I really enjoyed the trial work. It's a different challenge to public defender defense attorney is trying to destroy a case or break the case down with a prosecutor is building a case out. So I like the challenge of just having trial work. One of the things I tell all my law students are when you get out of school, if you do a trial before you go into a big firm, you're going to want your trials forever. It gets in your blood, it's like a you know it's a it's a legal it's illegal drug of traveling, and people like it. So if you're going to work in a big law firm and and which
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Fine, but not getting to the courtroom right away. Cuz normally it's hard to get into the courtroom right away. If you go work for big firm, that's still a great job. But once you get a trial under your belt, you'll get in your blood, you want to do that. So I never, but and so a lot of people I talked to I never could do defense work, I never could do prosecution work. And that's fine. Everyone teaches on right. But I like both of those jobs. And it was a natural progression to go to the next job, which in my mind was the judge having done both of those and I really have a strong background in criminal law. So that was just, it was like a natural progression. Plus, there are a lot of people that are my mentors that I've worked under and worked with and they've I've seen them go up to the bench and that you know, like anything else when sometimes you see your close friends do that inspires you as well and want to do that. That's amazing. And so judge I wanted to ask you Is it hasn't been a relief that we haven't really talked about the Coronavirus is it is and there's actually so much more of public education on the
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On the judicial system there, and we could have hours of these shows just to educate people. And you know,what's really super important. This isn't what this isn't my words, I heard someone tell me a few months ago, a few weeks ago, it's extremely important that we that we either appoint great judges or elect great judges, because you as a citizen, are going to come into contact with a judge Well, before you come into contact with a politician, or governor. And again, I'm not saying you know, right, don't vote for the governor, but your life is going to be more likely affected by a judge than someone else, okay, that you vote for on that ballot, or that you get it gets appointed. So it is extremely important position in our society. And sometimes I wonder if the public really knows who their judges are, knows their qualifications and knows their backgrounds. Maybe should have more of that because those are the people they're going to affect your life.
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So it's so important and, you know, there are a lot of times on a ballot, they're called down ballot choices, meaning the Bible. And unfortunately, people don't even go down that far to do that. And when they get down that far, they don't know, they haven't checked on those people. And I just always when I get a chance to emphasize how important is because those are the people, they're going to tell you about getting divorced, taking your children, right sends you to a crime, giving you a fine, whatever the situation is, whatever your interaction is with the court. And so that's why it's so so important to do that. But yes, it is nice not to talk about that. But I know you bring up a very good point though, about knowing who your judges are and really taking a harder look at their backgrounds because they're gonna affect you they're gonna affect you. Yeah, a lot sooner not again, not that we don't want to know our governor is or he's other people are, they're very important too. But who you who actually you're gonna be touched by, literally, I mean, not literally, but right and it's gonna affect your life. So
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So but it's it's good not to talk about that and get back to normal a little bit. So before we wrap this up, though I do I do want to tell people that the judge did an amazing, amazing interview with us, though, on mission critical courtrooms. And that video is on my website. It's on YouTube censoring design dot media. It's on screen is on TV. You can find the video on Facebook and we talk about what's happening with the courtrooms during this Coronavirus crisis. But the very end of the video, I did promise that I was going to ask one question. So this will be my last question before we wrap up the podcast. So many people are doing zoom interviews that the courtroom there's there's zoom going on right now between the judges and the attorneys. And you said to me judge that attire does matter. It does and we have one of our judges has a green screen setup. And he wants the background to be the courtroom. It's
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really a cool thing and it's very innovative. And so he's in his robe. He's got the back of the green screen in his garage, and it looks like a courtroom. So when you look at him, you see that projection now professional projection. We have one of our judges. I read an article a few weeks ago in Broward County, who was making some comments the local bar down there, that he wanted everyone to look professional even while on television, because you're still in court. Right? There was an article that he talked about some of the people coming in their sweatpants or jogging outfits and things like that appearing on in the court for the court hearing and he wants it to be as real as possible. So that's something because Zoom is so new, and these other things are so new, that we really haven't talked about a tire okay. I as I said earlier, teach school at law school and college. And and so we had that issue right away with some of the students I was educating them all across the country now because they've gone back home and they can tell that by looking you know, I don't expect you to wear a suit but you
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Can't be, you know, waking up in bed in your pajamas during class. Okay. And so so that's just the the college level law school level, right? And they got that real quick. But the professional level, I think really says a lot. You need to look good. You want to, you know, you want to look good, you're going to do well, if you can afford your sweatshirt, you will maybe do that real life and we will make this as real as possible. You know, under the circumstances. I understand there's a lot of different circumstances but we want the litigants to be dressed appropriately. And we want the attorneys to the Zoom attire, it's called. And it's something that I think it's a new word we're going to have in our in our lingo here, Zoom attire, but it's something that's going to, you know, if we have to do this again, or maybe as we talked about in our interview, after this is over, there may be more of this. So because of that reason, too, we're going to have to make sure that people appear professionally that are lawyers and dressed appropriately. And attire doesn't matter if there's no question about it, because it's a
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projection it sets off something and you don't want the judge to look at you and your sweatshirt on your couch hanging out. You know, and I, I completely agree with that. Like when I when I would walk into a newsroom, I would always be dressed, not to go out in the streets and report but if God forbid, something happened, that I'm ready to go on the anchor desk already at all times. And I think and even if you're on Zoom, anything, the perception, perception is very important and in cases and we didn't, and maybe next time we can talk about the Zoom and fire moment, because what the what's what's interesting about that is we have several four legged children in our home. And my wife's a teacher high school here in Tampa, we're local schools, so she's online at certain times or self teaching. And so and I'm doing some of the Zoom and then we've got the dogs barking. So not only Zoom attire important, but you have to make sure that your studio at home is locked down to where you're not going to have the phone ringing the the the dogs barking and all sorts
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thing so it's that Zoom attire and Zoom environment. Okay. Absolutely some great points. Judge. Judge, I could talk to you for hours. Please come back, definitely visit us on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us, everyone. And in closing, paraphrasing one of my favorite poets, Ralph Waldo Emerson, go where there is no path and leave a trail. Thanks so much for listening to Trailblazer everyone, I'm Sarina Fazan.